The criminal underworld has been rumbling as of late. A debate over splitting the loot from a bank robbery. We here at The Buzz decided to investigate the issue. I first met with Dysphonia a made member/bishop of The Vanguard/The Archbishops Of Banterbury. I invited him for a drink and smoke and asked if he would be open to discuss the matter at a bar in Los Angeles. He agreed and after I ordered a round of cognac, we began to talk but before he answered any questions he wanted to stress this point:
I'll point out I'm not that bothered, I just find it confusing when people get mad about swapping from 25%, and then say it doesn't matter because its so little money
Fair enough, we here at the buzz aren’t looking to ruffle any feathers, or cause any kind of kerfuffle, we just wanted to have a discussion on the matter.
I first asked him about his position in the debate, whether he felt that giving each member of your bank robbing team 25% is fair or unfair:
From a purely monetary standpoint, yes.
Based on money put in (assuming 2 tommies, and a duesy driving), it gives far more profit to the leader, and EE. Average duesy price is what, 65k over all states?
So essentially, while 25% for everyone on the surface appears fair, Dysphonia believes that once you consider how much each person is putting into organizing the robbery, you can begin to see just how unfair it really is. He then drew a quick little chart on his napkin to visualize his point. These values assume that the vault contained $300,000, which he agreed was a rather generous amount however made the math easier. The first image shows a cut of 25% for each member:
The second shows a 20% cut for the Leader and Explosive Expert and a 30% for Weapons Expert and Driver:
So, as one can easily see the second does appear to be more fair than the first. Next up while we were talking, Dysphonia discussed his experiences leading OC’s with a 20/20/30/30 payout model:
Basically.
I started running 20/20/30/30 out of curiosity, to see if it'd help with finding a driver, which often takes ages. It didn't, interestingly enough, but thats neither here nor there. I kept it because, hey, not everyone has money, maybe that little extra would help. I wont miss the 10k or so. I've had people as EE whining at me because of their missing 5%, I've had drivers still try to use a beauford despite the extra money, and be pissed off at me about it.
Then on the other hand, people dismiss it, because, hey, its 5%, who fucking cares? Its silly, it doesn't matter, but to some people apparently it does, so who knows anymore?
Its all a bit strange.
Interesting point, one would of thought that offering more to drive would of had filled the driver position much faster. I decided to test that claim and issued out a call to the underworld looking for a bunch of wiseguys(and gals) to pull off a bank robbery and offered varied cuts for each of the positions. I offered 40/30/20% to the weapons expert, driver and explosive expert respectively and outlined that I wanted 4 tommy guns, a duesenberg as the getaway car and C4 to blow up the vault. To my surprise, finding a driver still took time while the weapons expert and explosive expert spots were filled relatively quickly. The only explanations that I could come up with at the time were that the time I organized the robbery may have been inconvenient for many people and that people possibly weren’t reading and still thought it was 25% for everyone as many are accustomed to, a point that Dysphonia did touch on during the interview and a point everyone should take note of, reading a classified ad takes but mere seconds but it can save you and the leader a headache.
Carrying on, the next question posed to Dysphonia was his response for critics who argue that the 25% for all could be a good model if people spent more time into trying to steal duesenberg’s or used cheaper equipment:
Not everyone has the time to steal their own, and even if they did, I've been hyper nerd active, and probably done around 500 gtas in the last 2 days. Stolen like, 2-3, which would barely be enough. Its entirely unrealistic to think every single person can do that.
Gosh darn it, that’s a lot of attempted auto burglaries! However it is a point worth considering, while it is true you can get free duesenbergs by attempting to steal them, it’s fair to assume many people are purchasing them from various dealers across the nation and are investing much more than the required $10,000 for gas and disposal costs. With the average price being roughly $70,000 across the country, that’s a pretty hefty investment.
We finally asked Dysphonia if he had any last remarks to which he responded:
Nope, I'm all worded out
Understandable, we bidded him farewell and bought another round of drinks because we here at The Buzz are a gentlemanly bunch.
Next up, I managed to get an interview with SenatorQ, leader of the gang This Ain’t Farmville. We began by asking him to state his position in the debate of whether or not 25% for every member in an bank robbery is fair. This was his response:
I think that 25% for everyone is fair. Especially if people keep [rotating] between the different positions.
The reason I think it is fair, is because I can't think of any other split that is "more fair".
Interesting, he then added:
...because you don't know how the vault will turn out, you can't determine the perfect split for the take.
If it were possible to give fixed amounts to people, and then split the remainders in 4, that would be a way to customise how the take is to be divided. And still, how do you value the car if it was stolen? Then you're valuing effort, just like you might want to value the effort of the leader finding the participants to the OC.
It's just too much of a hassle for what it's worth.
The average take of a bank OC is what? $200k after don taxes?
So 1% more or less is $2k. At a decent rank, you make that in 2 crimes.
This is a point worth considering, is it worth to attempt to figure out fair sums for everyone involved if the amount of work you’ll have to put in to do so outweighs how much money said person will be receiving to being with?
Next we asked about his response to critics of the 25% for all model saying that duesenberg prices are far too high and that supplying multiple tommy guns should get you more of a cut. His response to this was:
Well, they can always lead, or only accept EE positions if it bothers them that much.
If enough people do that, there will be a lack of people willing to drive and be WE, so eventually people will start giving more to WE's and Drivers. It's all a question of [supply] and demand. Basic economy.
Also, when you're putting in decent effort to steal your own cars, you don't have to buy them. I try to keep 1 dues in every state.
If you're rotating between positions evenly, and you do 3 OC's a day, you only need 3 cars every 4 days. That can be done easily.
Then there is always the solution of using a beauford, or for higher ranks even the cheaper cars.
I've done many OC's with cheaper cars in previous rounds. I even did many during consecutive days, and I never noticed it having an influence on the vault or the speed with which I ranked.
It only influences the chance of success. And for that, the rank of the person has way more influence. I prefer a Don with a Comet over a scum with a dues anytime.
The same thing goes for using 4 tommies. I can understand it if you're very low ranked, or if you don't want to take any chances, like when you're doing a police car OC. There is no use for 4 tommies when you're a godfather working as WE.
If you choose to use a dues or 4 tommies, you have to accept you might not get your investment back. If the leader forces you to use that equipment, just join someone else, or accept it and accept you aren't getting a good deal.
In addition he also restated:
If you rotate positions, it all evens out. And in the end, if you make it clear what we are talking about (5% = $10k on average), it's just not worth the hassle.
These are points that are worth pondering over, in addition one point I’d like to make note of is the theory that using better equipment does not equate to more experience but rather simply adds to whether or not the robbery will succeed. I’ve always thought it was the equipment in addition to ranks that determined experince, so that just goes to show that you can always learn something new everyday.
Moving on we asked for his opinion on people taking advantage of those who will join in a bank robbery and begin complaining over explicitly stated requirements that the leader has, people cutting corners in order to gain extra profit at the expense of possibly failing the OC or simply not reading what you want them to do to begin with. His response to this was:
I never do that.
I let people use what they want. If they are confident it will succeed with the equipment they use, it's fine by me.
Generally, people don't want to take risks. I'm fairly high ranked, so they want the OC with me to succeed, so they can get the extra XP my high rank gives them.
My only exception would be very low ranks.
I don't like to take more than one person who is below gangster. I've just seen to many OC's fail when there were 2 very low ranks in. So the first Thug gets in, but the second thug who contacts me will have to wait for a next OC.
And for the lowest ranks (below hitman) I ask for a dues or 2 tommies. That has never been a problem. I have given duesies to low ranked friends so they could drive for me.
An interesting look into the Senator’s way of conducting business when it comes to robbing banks. It was getting late and I had a Louis Armstrong concert to attend so I decided to wrap things up and asked if he had any final words for our readers here at The Buzz:
Keep up the good work with the buzz. I enjoy reading it.
[furthermore]
I think it is silly that people give less to drivers using a beauford. Especially when those drivers are decently ranked. I don't believe there will be less XP that has to be compensated for.
The only thing you might want to compensate, is a slightly lower chance of success. But if that's the leader's reasoning, he should give what he takes from the driver to all the other participants, because all have the increased risk of failing. And that rarely happens. The leader just takes it all for himself.
And if you think Beaufords are a reason to give less, because they are less than the perfect equipment, you should give less to the WE as well, because he's using only one Tommy, which is less than perfect equipment too.
It's just silly to give less for a beau. Don't do it. I will think less of you if you do.
Well, you heard that folks, give less cuts for using a beauford and you will be viewed negatively by SenatorQ, and we don’t want that do we?
Well, that’s all folks, we didn’t intend to end the debate(in fact, we don’t believe it’ll ever end), we just simply intended to give different viewpoints to help our readers make an informed decision when it comes to how they split their bank loot. We thank both Dysphonia and SenatorQ for taking time out of their busy schedule to speak with us and wish them and all of our readers the best of luck in all future bank robberies.
